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Perception Vs. Reality

Slug, the kingpin of Minnesota indie rap, spouts off about his nerdy fans and becoming soft in his old age.

by B.D. | 2002.10.19

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b>Excuse the ignorance, but who exactly is Atmosphere?

Atmosphere is me and a producer named Ant. When I tour, due to the fact that Ant hates people and doesn't leave his house, I have to hire a DJ. And due to the fact that I smoke too many cigarettes and have terrible breath control, I generally hire a Flava Flav. Instead of going through my phonebook and finding a dope emcee and asking him 'hey, if I pay you this, this and this will you tour?' I used it more as medium to introduce other Rhymesayer artists to different parts of the country that they might not have had a chance to go to yet because they haven't had the exposure. Initially, I took Eyedea on the road because, A., he is dope, B., he's part of Rhymesayers and C., he was eager to get out there and put his name in people's heads. Essentially, when I tour, you never really know what you're going to get until you get there, but you're going to get me, naturally, and then, at this point, you'll always get Mr. Dibbs, cause it's sounds like he pretty much sold his soul to me. And whoever I bring with [us] is not so much like me trying to go 'hey, this dude is in Atmosphere,' it's more like 'hey, Atmosphere sucks, and I hired this dude to come with us to make us cooler than we really are.' This time around, Blueprint will be on the road. He's got a record that's coming out that he wants to promote. I get to get down with family, and not only are we getting down but we all have other motives besides that. Hey, you got to get your ass on the road…and teach these fifteen year-old white girls your name.

You seem to tour constantly. Being from Minnesota, how did you acquire such a strong New York fan base?

I beat enough people in the head in New York enough times with my shit to have a decent amount of people at my shows. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I earned it, but I'm not trying to sound so arrogant about it.

You're in a strange place. You sell out shows in New York, yet you're not someone who really seems to be a part of the New York underground.

I'm not that dude who's the hot shit. I'm not in the conversation. I've been out there enough and made friends with enough of my peers. I don't come up in the top ten lyricists. But I guess, overall, motherfuckers that know me think I'm a decent human. I get along with these cats. I'm not getting namedropped or bullshit like that, but I'm getting respectability for the fact I'm coming out of Minneapolis and coming into your city doing my thing and not really disrupting what the fuck you guys are doing. I just showed up, had a good time and peace, I'm gone. New York and L.A.'s underground scenes pretty much make up the world's underground scenes. Nobody's checking for kids from Nebraska. And with that, I get caught up two ways. I'm not part of it because I didn't grow up in it, and if I'm not there visiting, you don't really think about me. At the same time, I'm a part of it because I'm moving the amount of records and I'm selling out the shows. The dope shit that I've noticed is that I don't have to deal with the politics. There ain't no emcees there that want to whip my ass because I messed with somebody's girl three years ago. There ain't nobody there that I fucking had to battle coming up and made enemies.

Even though there are nine million people, New York's scene is completely incestuous. You see the same kids everywhere.

I don't have to think about any of that type of shit. Whose crew is whose. I know there's cats that shit talk…but when I go out there, it's all love. I get to kind of be cool with every circle 'cause I never really had the opportunity to shit on nobody. I'm blessed for that, because I didn't grow up in such an incestuous scene. I fucking came from somewhere else completely and I'm like this foreigner coming to town. I might as well be from fucking France. Nobody hates me. If you hate me, it's because you think I'm soft and that's a bullshit reason to hate someone and you can suck my dick.

You speak with venomous language about being mistaken for soft.

Do you run into that? Yeah. I run into it because I'm supposed to. I'm set up to. I set myself up for it. But the bottom line is respect me. If you don't because you're watching from a block away and you're looking…it might look that way. You meet me and spend three hours with me, will you walk away feeling the same way? No. Never. So I guess I'm cool.

Why do people get the perception that you're soft?

Because of my music. Everybody's like 'You used to be cool when you dissed people, now you rap about girls.'

Do you anticipate a backlash?

Not really. I anticipate falling off, or what have you. As long as I think I'm a dope emcee, I'm going to be dope fucking emcee, if that makes sense. Backlash means what? Next year these kids all discover the Dave Mathews Band and decide to go listen to that? That's not backlash, that's just, you know, a phase. Backlash means that suddenly the same kids who type cool things about me on message boards start shitting on me? That's not backlash, that's some suburban kid finding his own identity through music. Ten years ago, he'd have been dissing Bad Religion. Fuck'em. The only backlash that can come is somebody putting a gun to my head saying 'you don't get to rap no more, you have to stop now'. And if they do, I'll stop. Until then, it's on me.

Is that who your audience is, suburban kids on computers?

Oh, I wouldn't shotcall my audience at all. My audience is basically computer heads, rap heads, city kids that don't even listen to hiphop. A lot of it depends on what city I'm playing in. If I'm playing a small town in the Midwest somewhere, there's only going to be five black kids at the show because there's no black people in the city. The five that do come might not be the same twelve that went to the fucking Ja Rule show. But the five that come are the five that fucking want to hear motherfucking me or El or Talib-fucking-Kweli. I can't shotcall the audience right now, but I can tell you that I wish it were 80% women.

You've got a reputation as the ladies' man of the independent circuit.

Well, I know how to talk to women. It ain't my fault - blame my dad. I guess that's maybe why I get to be soft…because girls appreciate my music. There's girls in my city that have never fucking heard my record that know me as 'that guy' - I'll fucking come up to you and talk to you. I don't think it has anything to do with me being a ladies' man, but if fools want to say that shit, I'm cool with it. I like talking to women, I know how to talk to women, even as an emcee. You watch a lot of rappers, man, they don't know how to talk to women.

Are you getting a reputation as a sensitive cat?

To me, it's like this. I rap. I rap real good. I fucking rap my fucking ass off. I rap, I rap, I rap. Can you imagine how many times I've said that in the last sixteen years? A lot of times. And so I'm over that. I've convinced myself that I rap really good. Remember rock music in the Seventies, not that we were really bumping it 'cause we were too young? You hear them songs at a wedding reception and you hear fucking 'Rock You All Night Long' or you hear "We Rock" or "We Came To Rock You" or "I Will Rock You" or "We'll Fucking Rock You 'Til You Cum" or whatever, man. It's going through a phase where you have to prove yourself. That's also part of emceeing. Yo, I'm the dopest fucking rapper. I'm over your head like a rafter…like blah, blah, blah. There, I proved that I'm the freshest. I don't do that now, I just fucking rap. Lyrically, I will write about some shit that motherfuckers might think or might feel but ain't never going to rap about. And it's not because I'm special or I have this gift. I don't know if there's some special shit that I'm accidentally making girls go 'oh, this hiphop is fresh.' 'Cause I can see those same girls at a fucking M.O.P. show, in my mind. Granted, I go to the M.O.P. show and they're not there. In my head at the time, I'm fucking M.O.P. right now, you know? Girls, fucking sing the chorus with me.

So you're getting more ass than any underground artist?

I don't know [laugher]. Here's all I know -- cats that think I'm soft, they should just watch what happens at the hotel after the show…I'm joking. To me, it's kind of like, you might think it's soft, but I'm still dealing with issues that, to me, aren't about being soft. These are issues that will fuck a motherfucker up if given the opportunity. These are issues that can fuck you up more than a fucking punch. Just 'cause I'm dealing with them in song and girls like the songs - that shouldn't necessarily put me in a position of somebody checking me on what I'm contributing to hiphop or any shit like that. Cats that think I'm soft…what is it that you're rapping for? You started rapping because you thought you were good, you like the attention you got when you were doing it, you wanted some fucking money, you wanted fucking girls to like you. When you're fucking eleven years old and you're deciding you want to be an emcee…these are the reasons why. Not because you want to fucking change hiphop. Not because you want to change the world. Not because you want to push the boundaries of art or any fucking shit like that. It's because you like to see motherfuckers stare at you and think you're dope at some shit. Check the motives. Why do you think I make so many songs that girls can feel?

So you sympathize, then, with a Ja Rule?

Oh, big time, dude. Ja Rule is tight. Can't knock the hustle. What would he be doing if he wasn't doing that? He'd be doing the same shit, he just wouldn't be rapping. I ain't mad at that. I ain't mad at none of them fools. Like, fuck, that shit is funner to listen to and more entertaining and actually better to listen to than half the crap most of my friends make. I just like my friends' crap because I know them as people. And they're good people. But when I'm doing dishes, I rock the bad shit.

It seems that a lot of people who make underground music don't necessarily listen to it.

Here's the thing -- those of us who make underground music - we don't make music you can dance to. And I like shit that has a beat. When I'm in the mood, I will sit down and study somebody's shit. I don't study Ja Rule's records - when I listen, I don't listen closely. It just sounds good. It fucking sounds sonically good - it makes you smile. The underground stuff is like this…it has the chance of doing something creative and new. The underground is hungry because the underground ain't got no money. They want to be the dope shit. Ja Rule knows he ain't the fucking dope shit. He don't fucking care about being the dopest emcee in the world. He's making shit for people to dance to; he's making shit for girls to like; he's making shit for guys that like girls to buy. I ain't mad at that shit 'cause it is what it is. If I wanted to make that kind of shit, I'd get some tight-ass production, whatever, whatever. Watch - next year, I'll flip and get Swizz and whoever is supposed to be the dope shit right now. Me and Ant will play the background and blow the fuck up. We'll be rich - richer than all you motherfuckers.

In all honesty, if the opportunity is there, will you try to blow up? It's a cliché to say you won't change your art - but will you?

I don't want to be famous. I just want to be rich -- you can keep the fame. Right now, I'm at a pretty good place. If I could hold this down for a couple years…I've learned enough about this shit from the touring and from the label where I'll bounce and go make money as a tour manager or bounce and go make money putting out your record. I'll get behind the scenes and play a role putting out good music for the rest of my fucking life. I'm not really looking to get famous, dude. I don't want to fucking walk into Burger King and get harassed by the girl that's selling me French fries just 'cause she recognizes my face off of MTV or some shit like that. I don't think I could handle that. Where it's at right now is cool. The self-esteem is in a good place 'cause I get to come to these cities and see tons of people show up at these fucking shows. When I say 'tons', I mean 600. That's fine - I don't need 6,000 to show up at the shows. That would probably freak me the fuck out.

[After a brief interruption from a phone call, Slug inexplicably goes back to talking about the way in which he is perceived as "soft". After the confusion, we decide to stick to the topic of respectability.]

Which cats think you're soft?

I think some of the peers do and a lot of the fans and advocates of this shit do. I think that I probably have issues with it that I'm trying to leave alone because I don't want to be that motherfucker. Five, ten years ago, I would have been one of them cats dissing that motherfucker probably. When I'm fucking bumping Big Daddy Kane, man, the fucking worst shit to me was the fucking girl song. I hated that shit. The only cats who made a girl song and came correct with it ever was fucking M.C. Shan…or Slick Rick fucking made the songs about getting hoes. I respected them, but I hated when motherfuckers did that shit.

You know you loved L.L.'s "Two Different Worlds".

Nah, dude. I couldn't fuck with him. The reason I quit fucking with L.L. is because his records went from having one of those songs to having three of them songs.

How many do your albums have now?

That's what I'm saying. And maybe that's where my fucking issues are stemming from. Because I look back on my latest one and count four. I look back on the one before that and all of them were. I don't care if you use this shit. I'm not going to check your site going 'aw, man, he didn't print none of that shit'. Whatever. I'm telling you this because you're a fucking stranger and I decided to put it on you today. What happened? I think something fucked me up. I got old. Now I'm not so mad at music anymore. I used to be that dude that was like 'yo, it's gotta be like this or it's fucking not real'. And I think I got old. Now I'm just kinda like 'man, do what the fuck you're doing and as long as you ain't hurting nobody, I don't care what you're fucking doing.' Maybe women just became a huge motivation for me. As far as me cracking stupid jokes like 'cats that think I'm fucking soft, they should spy on me at the fucking hotel when I'm getting down with three girls at once and they'll see why I make this kind of shit' - even that's a fucking joke. That's some bullshit image. You're never going to see me fucking getting down with three fucking girls. Yada, yada, yada. I guess that's just my way of being on some fucking 'fuck them cats' type shit…cause 'yeah, the girl they wanted left with me.' Whatever, fuck all that shit, dude. And just fuck everything. There.

Are you soft?

Um…I ain't really trying to get punched by nobody. But if you punch me, I'll hit you back. If I can talk my way out of it, I'll talk my way out of it. To me, the soft shit is inspired by the fact that I wrote some shit about girls and I liked what I wrote. And to me, that shit was real. I wasn't going 'hmm, lemme see if I can make a fucking love song'. I was writing about shit that I was thinking about, I was writing about shit that happened to me, shit that was fucking me up. Maybe I'm a sucker for putting all that shit out there for the world to see. I'll take that. I'll be the sucker. But to be like 'I'm making soft music?' Fuck that. That shit was hardcore to me when I made it. And whether or not you hear it, that's not my problem. If you ain't hearing it yet, maybe you're the sucker 'cause you haven't been in this situation before. I don't know. But I'll take the title of sucker.

You receive a certain amount of hatred from the hiphop audience. Underground acts such as Anticon and Atmosphere get dismissed as 'white boy nerd rap.'

As far as I'm concerned, [if] people don't like me, that's cool. I got no problem with that. These people that shit on me, they're not the same age as me. They're those fucking hungry-minded motherfuckers that overanalyze everything they can and talk shit about anything they can because that's the phase of life they're in right now. I'm not mad at that. That makes perfect sense to me. I went through that phase of life. But the catch is…you're talking shit about me. I win. It's especially cool if they've never heard me, and they're putting my name in their mouth. They're giving a little time of their day to me. I win...I win.

Some people seem to think that fans of your music are elitists who will say 'if you don't like this, you're not smart enough to feel it.'

Right. I'll tell you this, man. Somebody says 'I hate Slug's shit, I don't think it's that tight,' the only motherfucker that should take offense to that is Slug. You know what I mean? Nobody else should be there saying 'fuck you for not liking it.' That's a pretty wack thing to tell somebody. You don't know who you're talking to. Who's really not the smart one there? I can't really relate to that mind-state - I would never do that.

Slug's Album "God Loves Ugly" is currently available. His tour schedule is posted on rhymesayers.com.

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