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Moving on Your Weak Production

Loosie chats with that nefarious Green-Eyed Bandito, Erick Sermon.

by Douglas Passion | 2003.02.27

Erick Sermon calls EPMD the "most sampled group of all time". So it must be true. Shit, Dr. Dre, Jay-Z and DMX have all reincarnated Sermon's old school production into modern success. With an album currently in stores, Redman and Keith Murray projects in the works and another possible EPMD album waiting in the wings, Sermon is pretty damn busy for a 14-year veteran of the dog-eat-dog rap world. Loosie talks to the Green Eyed Bandit about his place in the current Hip-Hop climate.

You’re the consummate Hip-Hop veteran. What do you think of the current state of the art form?

I just think that in Hip-Hop there wasn’t that many followers as there is now. When we came out with EPMD, you knew that was Slick Rick, that was De La Soul, that was Run, that was L, that was Kane, that was Biz. We all had an identity. Right now, there’s seven or eight rappers that sound like Jay…or follow the footsteps of Biggie with the flossing. In Hip-Hop, we had the flossing, but not where it was so obvious that every record had to have the same contact.

Your latest single was done by Just Blaze and, like many current records, used a vocal sample.

That record was two years old. In came out later, but it was done a long time ago. It was something that was made in 2000 but came out in 2002.

It was sort of different hearing you rap on a single that you didn’t produce.

It was kind of fun though. I been rapping over myself for so long that when I get on someone’s else’s stuff, even my personality came out a little on the ‘React’ record. I was like ‘yo, I’m immaculate, come through masculine’ – I don’t rhyme like that, but the beat made me do it.

Do you write all your own material?

I always write rhymes. Ghostwriters is a big thing. That’s what makes our squad so different. We create our owns. We don’t happen to get the credibility like the rest of them, but we are a self-contained unit. Every beat was done by me since 1988. If you have eight producers on your album, people will never know. If I fail, you don’t know I failed. If I win, you don’t know I win. The people, they automatically think that I’m selling major records or that I’m okay, because it’s Sermon. They gave me the greenlight and whatever I do, they’re cool with it.

Why haven’t you been as successful as some of the other prolific Hip-Hop producers?

People out here in the game doing these certain songs and they getting the credibility or the sales from it…and I just think it’s popcorn. But I guess we deal in a popcorn era where what we call Hip-Hop doesn’t mean nothing no more. But I can’t change. I can make an adjustment, but I can’t lose the culture. That’s what me and my squad does. Redman just had a gold record – this is Redman! A gold record? Not saying that we the greatest music, but to not even be a contender in what they call Hip-Hop and not being recognized because the other popcorn stuff is looked at first.

I think the consolidation of record labels has created a situation where everybody seems to just copy each other.

You see what’s happening. The game took a decline and people don’t want to buy CD’s no more. They tired of people not having a whole great album. Back then, you used to play an album for a year. Now you listen to it for two weeks and it’s a coaster.

Are the artists the ones ultimately responsible for making better music?

The artists like the sales and the money. So why should we change, I’m selling records? We ain’t doing it. I come from Run DMC and my crew comes from me. I think that we always did everything correct. But I was always involved with somebody -- even my label now, J Records -- that don’t get it. That’s why me and Busta Rhymes are the only ones suffering that got big records. When you have people that don’t get it, you lose. When I had Onassis, I had a record with me and Slick Rick, and Puffy was like ‘yo, that record is a smash, whoever has that record, don’t lose it’. I was on Dreamworks and they still didn’t get it – the marketing, nothing was right. Ask people about my second album, Double Or Nothing, and they’ll be ‘it was classic material, I don’t care what hiphop guide you go to.’ This is not just me talking. My colleagues will tell you ‘yo, Sermon is sick, he came with it this year.’

You seem unhappy with your relationship with J Records.

It’s not that good. They didn’t do nothing for me. It was a big move. We thought it was the biggest. But then you look at the roster and see how many of their artists didn’t make it.

But ‘Music” and “React” were both very popular songs. Those were two of the biggest cuts you’ve had it years.

I think the public doesn’t know that I’m not winning. I’m looking like a superstar. They didn’t think I was going to come with anything bigger than “Music”. Then I come right back with this. People are like ‘what’s he doing? Is he the second wind or whatever?’ They don’t know that I ain’t doing well. People are waiting for a second single but my label won’t give me a second video.

At least you’ve got other projects lined up. How is Keith Murray’s album coming?

After three years of him being incarcerated, of course he had mad rhymes. He’s ready. We got the first single called “And You Know It” – it’s a dope video, it’s crazy. Me and Redman is on it too.

Considering the talent around you, why have Def Squad’s record sales failed to reach that upper echelon?

We don’t know what it is about our crew. It’s the appeal. Women are a big consumer, and suburban culture – which is white America. Redman doesn’t make that music that is chorus driven. It’s more rhyme, it’s Hip-Hop, it’s harder. I understand, at the end of the day, I can’t see myself resorting to that. It’s hard to get back from that. It should be a situation where we should be able to. EPMD was really big because we did Hip-Hop, but when we put the chorus on, it had a melody. We didn’t know why we was so ill – we had singing in the record, but it was a sample. [he sings] “Get down, get down”, “time keeps on slipping”.

When it comes to classic tracks, what are some of the songs you wish you produced? Who sent you back to the lab?

“Eric B. for President”, “Nobody Beats the Biz”, “Children’s Story”. Those were some of the biggest record I ever heard in my life. Marley Marl was definitely a factor, huge.

Who are you feeling out of the current crop of producers?

I like Just Blaze. He do what I do. I brung the clap to rap. There wouldn’t be no clap music if there wasn’t “You Got to Chill”. Even West Coast.

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